Looking for some input on legal situation civil and criminal

buythisatvstuff · January 05, 2010, 08:59:21 PM

I have a friend that was at a local bar recently with some other friends. As he walked out (first one of the group) he was hit from behind in the back of the head. He's a pretty big guy, but that strike to the base of the skull sent him down. He was out enough to have not been able, or conscious enough, to put his hands out to break his fall. He hit face first, and hard. He suffered a broken orbital, broken jaw ( 2 places), the bone under his nose was broken, a bone near his ear was broken, and one or two other small bones in his face were broken. There was no argument or confrontation before this. He had never seen the guy before. After he was struck some witnesses called the cops. When they showed up the guy that hit him was laying in a pool of his own blood (perhaps at the hands of the rest of my friends party, but I wouldn't point fingers). They both went to the hospital. The cops didn't arrest either as they had no idea what happened and assumed it was some sort of mutual bar fight scenario. turns out some people from a near buy business told the cops exactly what happened - that my friend walked out and got sucker punched from behind. So now the have talked to my friend and said they are filing charges. The officer told him that it is only a misdemeanor battery since the strike didn't cause significant damage or harm, and that all the broken bones were from him falling so that it didn't qualify for an agg. battery charge (felony). Now obviously my friend would never have fallen flat on his face on the concrete had he not been KO'd from behind.
first question from LEO's or attorneys - is it or is it not a felony agg battery in this case ?
Since this incident we have learned who the guy is. He is an EMT for a private company and is trying to get on with the county. Also turns out that he lives not too far from my friend and even knows some of the same people through extended networks. He has since stated that he just wants to drop it and get on with his career/life.
Given the unprovoked attack and the severity of injury, I would assume he can go after the guy in a civil suit as well as the criminal one. He is a young guy that lives at home. can his parents be held responsible in any way since he lives there and has nothing of his own to attach ?
And can the bar they were at be held responsible since it was on their walk - just outside the front door, where my friend was attacked ? He literally got a step out the door and was hit. The guy says he doesn't remember why he even did it.
Anoriginal ? any other LEO or attorneys ? input ?

trx#9 · January 05, 2010, 09:56:17 PM

The bar is the one to go after, their responsible for your safety and also should have adequate insurance.

buythisatvstuff · January 05, 2010, 10:12:22 PM

That's kind of what I thought but if possible I would go after him and his parents as well. If nothing else he should be able to go after the guy that hit him and get a judgement against him. He may never collect, but it could give the guy a headache in the future. However I'm no lawyer.........but I did play one on TV

lugnuts · January 05, 2010, 10:26:06 PM

Quote from: trx#9 on January 05, 2010, 09:56:17 PM
The bar is the one to go after, their responsible for your safety and also should have adequate insurance.

:ThumbsUp.gif

IXIswamperIXI · January 05, 2010, 10:37:33 PM

That was a bad situation, I hope all is well!! But don't go after the bar, that changes nothing to the person who hit him. I know I am going to get grief over this but that is not right in my book, going after the bar that is. I was just raised different. Again I wish him well! Good luck!

renmus · January 05, 2010, 10:44:59 PM

Quote from: IXIswamperIXI on January 05, 2010, 10:37:33 PM
That was a bad situation, I hope all is well!! But don't go after the bar, that changes nothing to the person who hit him. I know I am going to get grief over this but that is not right in my book, going after the bar that is. I was just raised different. Again I wish him well! Good luck!

No grief from me. The trip to the deepest pocket is not for justice, just greed. Hate it that the perp is a young guy who made a mistake, but HE made the mistake if the story we got is correct. Coming at someone from behind is cowardly. Let him man up finally and take full responsibiility.

buythisatvstuff · January 05, 2010, 10:58:24 PM

I see what you're saying about just going to deep pockets, but seems I've heard something about having a reasonable assumption of safety

If so they didn't live up to it. And in this case the actual criminal has nothing to get. My buddy now has tons of hospital bills, is out of work, etc. I'm not saying it's the best thing, just wondering if it's even an option in this terrible set of circumstances.

trx#9 · January 06, 2010, 12:23:53 AM

This is why the bar is required to have sufficient insurance, $hit sometimes you gotta do what it takes to survive.

asmart82 · January 06, 2010, 07:40:55 AM

I'm no lawyer or LEO but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I say TP the parents house!

gearhead400 · January 06, 2010, 07:57:31 AM

How was the bar suppose to stop a guy from sucker punching a guy in the back of the head, on the way out, when there was no arguing or confrontation prior to the act? I definitely understand the need to get your medical bills paid. If that bar loses their insurance for this and can't pick anyone else up and goes under, man i'd feel terrible. I'd rather go after the guy and if all else fails, stalk his ass for about 2 weeks and hit him when the time is right. Sucks about your friend, hope he heals up quick.

IXIswamperIXI · January 06, 2010, 08:03:21 AM

Quote from: gearhead400 on January 06, 2010, 07:57:31 AM
How was the bar suppose to stop a guy from sucker punching a guy in the back of the head, on the way out, when there was no arguing or confrontation prior to the act? I definitely understand the need to get your medical bills paid. If that bar loses their insurance for this and can't pick anyone else up and goes under, man i'd feel terrible. I'd rather go after the guy and if all else fails, stalk his ass for about 2 weeks and hit him when the time is right. Sucks about your friend, hope he heals up quick.

x2 Your friend deserves compensation for sure!!! I just don't know how the legal system works at all

That punk @$$ is the one that needs to pay, but there is probley some loop hole where he wont have too $:-\$

Anoriginal · January 06, 2010, 12:01:55 PM

Sorry I just saw this thread.

He can definitely go after the guy in civil court. There's no doubt about it. Also, his damages with those types of injuries are going to be significant. I think it's something he shoudl definitely look into. Most of these cases can be done on a contingency type basis. He should consult with a local PI attorney in his area.

That same attorney would likely investigate claims against the establishment as well. Depending on prior incidents, security, lighting, how much the guy was served before he hit your friend, etc...there very well could be culpability on the part of the establishment. Again, it bears looking into for sure.

My take? He's definitely got significant claims against the guy that hit him and likely has claims against the bar as well. I'd get to a good PI attorney ASAP while things are still fresh in everyone's heads.

Mudneck · January 06, 2010, 04:10:31 PM

I like those kind of bars

Keeter · January 06, 2010, 04:43:18 PM

Anoriginal is the man.. do EXACTLY what he says.

trx#9 · January 06, 2010, 05:07:18 PM

Definitely wasn't the Pickle, very friendly crowd there.

ganny76 · January 07, 2010, 03:27:08 PM

I think he would have a tough time getting any negligence on behalf of the bar. All they have to do is provide reasonable security. They cannot and are not required to be everywhere at every momment. If this guy had no history of this that the bar was aware of, or the bar did not over serve him it will be very difficult. That said, it would be very expensive for the bar to fight a lawsuit like this and you can find any PI attorney that will take this on a contigency basis and try to get 5-10k out of the bar. I think what the guy did was wrong, but unless the bar done something wrong, I think he should leave them alone. Just my $.02.

gearhead400 · January 07, 2010, 03:34:40 PM

After anoriginal's post i would agree the bar might be held responsible if the required amount of lighting wasn't there and the guy was served way too much. I still don't think i'd want to go after the bar but who knows. Those are good points.

JJChomp · January 07, 2010, 04:27:31 PM

I went through this same situation right after college in 1992. Standing in a bar and got sucker punched, well got hit from behind with a bar glass by a coked up dude who thought I was someone else. 350 stitches and 2 days in the hospital later, i drove home. Guy was caught. He was out on bail from another attack when he hit someone over the head with a glass pitcher. No attorney wanted to touch it. Not enough money from the defendant and the bar wasn't liable because there were bouncers and security, they just didn't get this guy before he hit me. They only have to provide reasonable security as this was not a bar where this sort of thing happens. Guy was convicted of agg assault and I was compensated by his paying restitution. Took him 10 yrs to pay me off.

That being said we have a lot more weasel attorneys that will take this type of case, but if the police aren't pushing for ag assault, i don't think this would go very far.

J

Chillinthemost · January 07, 2010, 06:46:07 PM

There is ALWAYS 2 sides to every story. If your friend was truly innocent and had no words with or ever even met this guy I would be surprised.
This is precisely why I drink at home or while accompanied by my attorney.

trx#9 · January 08, 2010, 09:58:11 AM

Quote from: Chillinthemost on January 07, 2010, 06:46:07 PM
There is ALWAYS 2 sides to every story. If your friend was truly innocent and had no words with or ever even met this guy I would be surprised.
This is precisely why I drink at home or while accompanied by my attorney.

If your attorney is a moderator in the politics section becareful if he hands you a beer, he has a habit of slipping a roofy in it.

Anoriginal · January 08, 2010, 11:37:43 AM

Quote from: trx#9 on January 08, 2010, 09:58:11 AM
Quote from: Chillinthemost on January 07, 2010, 06:46:07 PM
There is ALWAYS 2 sides to every story. If your friend was truly innocent and had no words with or ever even met this guy I would be surprised.
This is precisely why I drink at home or while accompanied by my attorney.
If your attorney is a moderator in the politics section because careful if he hands you a beer, he has a habit of slipping a ruefy in it.

That's why he drinks with me.

Chillin's always trying to get me drunk and take advantage of me.

digginfool · January 08, 2010, 02:27:00 PM

Quote from: Chillinthemost on January 07, 2010, 06:46:07 PM
There is ALWAYS 2 sides to every story. If your friend was truly innocent and had no words with or ever even met this guy I would be surprised.
This is precisely why I drink at home or while accompanied by my attorney.

Don't be so sure of that. I have seen people get drunk and decide they're going after the 'big guy' (hey guys! watch this! I'm gonna knock the big guy out. Got my back?). It happens a hell of a lot more times than most people would believe. When I was younger, I knew two brothers who were just little guys with big mouths. But, they always hung around the big rednecks from West Melbourne. Their favorite stunt was to start a fight with a guy inside the bar, lure the guy outside to finish it where all their buddies were waiting to stomp the crap out of the unsuspecting slob(s). All kinds of idiots out there.

Keeter · January 08, 2010, 04:41:11 PM

Quote from: Anoriginal on January 08, 2010, 11:37:43 AM
Quote from: trx#9 on January 08, 2010, 09:58:11 AM
Quote from: Chillinthemost on January 07, 2010, 06:46:07 PM
There is ALWAYS 2 sides to every story. If your friend was truly innocent and had no words with or ever even met this guy I would be surprised.
This is precisely why I drink at home or while accompanied by my attorney.
If your attorney is a moderator in the politics section because careful if he hands you a beer, he has a habit of slipping a ruefy in it.

That's why he drinks with me.

Chillin's always trying to get me drunk and take advantage of me.

HaHa, now that is funny. The imagery is scary. :H

buythisatvstuff · January 08, 2010, 09:47:33 PM

Yes, there is always another side to a given story, but to assume my friend is lying about the facts of what happened without ever meeting him is kind of presumptuous don't ya think ? Usually the different stories give different perspectives tainted by a bias perspective. In this case it would be outright lying about the clear cut facts. saying we never met, spoke, argued etc. is a little different that he called me "x" when the other guy says he called him "z". I don't have a police report on the situation, but when a third party provides comments that the guy said he doesn't recall why he did it seems to suggest that my friend's account is accurate.

And be sure to brush up on your knowledge of Fl. statutes before drinking with that particular lawyer buddy or he'll just convince you that him forcing you to participate in certain acts is indeed legal, and he will in fact file suit against you if you don't please him in a timely manner. At least that's what Trx said was done to him

Anoriginal · January 10, 2010, 10:33:31 AM

Speaking of which....Erik!!!!! You're late for todays' "appointment".

Bring a breath mint. You're gonna need it.