ATV Florida Forum

What a waste!

 the Iraq war cost is well over $1 trillion.

That is enough to provide health care for all 47 million uninsured Americans and quality pre-kindergarten for every American child, solve the housing crisis once and for all, make college affordable for every American student and provide tax relief to tens of millions of middle-class families.

Thanks God Sadam Hussein is out of there. I was actually worried some of his pitifull arsed soldiers or weapons of mass distruction would strike Florida. Thanks Mr. Bush. Your the man! Job well done!

 :Clap.gif

I always thought our military was for defense. How can they defend when they are out attacking other countries. Not blaming military in any way, only our retarded president. If john mccain is elected were all screwed!!!

And we are not screwed if the phyco skirt or the racist black guy get elected?

Your right. I just see him as the worst of the retards. I don't even know if I will vote.

Here's a good read that the liberal press won't print. :-*

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Iraq/wm1860.cfm

Good post  ;D

mpt saying we need a complete pullout dude! bush should have put 80,000 more troops in that crizap hole along time ago. maybe there would only be 2,000 dead soldiers instead of 4,000.

I come from a family that is of pure military background. My grand father was a SS Officer in the nazi army, After the war he imigrated to this great country. My father was a colonel in the US Army for 20 years. My cousins, all marines, my brothers firefighters and cops. We have felt the strain on our family as my own blood has been shipped over seas. One of my best friends nearly lost his life due to IED over there. However, everyone who has served over there keeps coming back with the same message. Its a mess, but the people want and need us. 4000 lives is a statistic to try to bring people down. Half a million lives in ww2, 70,000 lives in vietnam? The cost of life is heavy in everywar, but you have to outweigh the cost of the ability for children to go and get an education, for a woman to walk down the street to a corner market and not be beat for being acussed of adultery because she is not walking with a man. I hate to say it but there are too many people in this country who continue to try to drag it down because they are so unhappy with their own existance *Nacy Fonda/Jane Polosi* You have to remember that the continuation of OUR FREEDOM IN OUR COUNTRY is DEFENDED in these countries where we are having these unpopular wars. The second iran detonates a IED on US soil everyone will be out for blood. That is what this war is about, making sure that never happens. The second IED and attacks start becoming a regular thing here in the US its too late. Your freedom will be down the shitter. Not because lawmakers will change it but because FEAR will consume you. You are too scared to go to work, to the market, church etc. My only request is before you go making accusations about how G.W.Bush has fucked everything up, ask your self this.. what president in the last 20 years would have done what he has with his resolve to not sway on getting this done. I personally dont agree with going into Iraq, but I do stand behind a President who does not falter and change his opinion every time the wind blows a different direction.

i would have no problem putting a bullet in some stank arsed towel wearin c-jocky's head. And i would not shiver in my house with fear. And hopefully you would not either. 

maybe Bush should have changed the course of this unpopular war instead of being stubborn and "staying the course". Sometimes you have to come to terms with making a mistake and take a different turn.

We will be policing that crizap hole for 20 more years. We are not a police force but a killing force. Put the needed troops in there and kill all the insurgents.   

you can say 4,000 is a statistic to bring us down but it is the truth. No need to spill American blood on the other side of the world in a place where we are not wanted. Let them kill themselves.   

I served 8 years in the US Army and was in Desert Shield and Storm. I have no problem at all with us being over in Iraq. We should have stayed the first time and finished the job BUT we didn't. So, now we are going to finish the job as long as we don't get some liberal "tree hugging" President. I'm now 39, have a wife and two children and I'm thinking of signing back up. Being prior military even at my age I can go back and I just might.

 Put things into perspective.........more people are murdered in any one MAJOR US city like Chicago or LA than ALL the soldiers killed in the same day, week or month. I can live with that.

 :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif

Thanks for your service.

First off the fact that your grandfather was SS officer is nothing to be proud about IMO.

And this comment is part of the problem "what president in the last 20 years would have done what he has with his resolve to not sway on getting this done."  It's a fact that GW went about the war in the wrong way, not nearly enough troops to get the job done in a timely manner so now, no matter what the United States does, there will be a civil war when we leave.  Iraq is lost unless we occupy it for decades and nobody should want that to happen.  I was for this war also but it is very apparent that GW and his henchmen screwed it up and did not recognize it until it was too late,  "resolve" is one thing but pure stupidity and stuborness is something else.

And I won't even comment on this  "And we are not screwed if the phyco skirt or the racist black guy get elected?" but anyone that has read some of my recent post should know what I am thinking.

"4000 lives is a statistic ", tell that to the families of the dead soldiers  :(

if we did not fight these bastards, that statistic or whatever you want to call it would be 4,000,000 deaths of civilians in the USA.

 :R 2:L :R  I see that this is not a biased opinion?  Liberal press, give me a break, they did not seem too liberal when the Monica Lewinsky thing was going on did they?   I will reserve the rest of my opinion so as not get beat up again by a internet bully  ;D, J/K Cableguy

Looked factual to me. Even had references. ::)

I never said it was not factual, but you can shape the facts to read anyway you want.  Look at what GW did with the "facts" about weapons of mass destruction and for that matter his resume to be president has been shaped so many times even he himself would not recognize it.  BTW, I did not even read what it said, as soon as I went to the website you could tell it was slanted way, way to the right.

Fish are you fishing because I'm not going to bite.You caused another grey hair in my mustache last time.LOL.

They don't call me Fish for nothing  :wink.gif

The longer we stay over there the worst it will be for us in the long run. Were only making more enemies than ever and dragging up the oil prices even higher.
 We still have 30 thousand troops in south Korea. See a trend!
Just like Ron Paul said pull everyone out of the middle east along with all the money too and we can live income tax free. Plus we won't ruffle anymore feathers over there.
I also like how Bush signed a billion dollar deal to sell laser guided bombs to Egypt. Do you see a trend here too. You gun ho military guys that back anything the president says will sure like being shot by our own weapons in a few years.  :o

This thread is worthless without an intelligent post

The U.S. avg's 15,000 murders a year >:(
The U.S. avg's 14,000 drunk driving deaths a year   >:(
That's 145,000 lives since the War started..................
Korean war.........54,000 lives lost
Vietnam.............58,000 lives lost
While every life (4000) we have lost over in the middle east is tragic it compares nothing to what we experiences here between our own borders on a yearly basis!!! Hell we have some cities here that have more deaths (murders) per month than the whole damn war per month!! I won't say the war is worth it but at least they aren't dying in vain and there is a cause!  "What a Waste"!! I don't think so Wilburz  :( lets sit back and see how history plays out on this whole matter (wether we should have gone there or not)! until then all conjecture anyway...

There you have it. What a ramus ???

Ramus


















Ignor      ramus

God I am way too tired to post anything sensible here.

You are all lucky. lol  ;)

I'm going to go change another diaper and take a nap.

I also Thank You for your great sacrifices and service to our country, so we can have the opportunity to debate this!

My issue with this logic is that Iraq is 167,975 square miles.  The US is 3,790,000 square miles.  By size the lost of US soldiers in Iraq is about even with ever murder and auto death is in the US.  In other words, adjusted by square mile, for ever death by either murder or auto accident, one addition solider has died.

It might be interesting and more accurate to see the comparison by population.

HAHA, yea I was gonna say that, of course a liberal new outlet wouldn't print factious Pro-war propaganda.

I know, every time the press says anything bad about the war you guys cry "liberal press".  Your right the whole world is against you right wingers, please  :banghead.gif.

You stay out of this, you are on diaper duty for the next 2-3 yrs.  Can you say diaper genie  :ThumbsUp.gif

first off, the vietnam was 40 years ago! if the generals of today tried to stick us in a quagmire like that and lose 100's of soldiers today then they would be in big trouble. the game of war has changed exponentially! you cannot even comare Iraq to any of those wars.

And it does note even make sense to compare combat deaths to the number of people dying in the usa. that is ludicrous! And it is my personal opinion that its a waste! Maybe if we spent more money on better armor and sent more troops over there and cleaned up that crizap hole then no more soldiers would die. I am just saying 4,000 is a lot of people. Even 1 death over there is too much IMO.

Don't worry about gas prices anymore president Bush just sent thingy Cheney over to Saudi Arabia to talk about oil. I'm sure gas will a drop a couple of dollars in a few days. :R :R :R :R :R :R :R :R :R ViO

Oh yeah. those Diaper Genies are great!!! Never been so tired yet so happy in all my life.

Alright, you guys get back to throwing mud. I'm spectating this one.  ;D

I say nuke the camel jockeys, to hell with all the lying ,stinking arabs make the place a parking lot than steal there oil make it 50 cents a gallon. Dont pregnant dog about Bush he  keeps us
free ,like your freedom thank a veteran
Semper FI

yet another thread that leaves me very disapointed in this site... who would of thought, atv riders, liberal tree hugin girl thingies...

Great post .....  Hey Wiburz what have you ever served, it takes a certain type of person who wants to protect thier country, not from the view point of tommorrow or a month from now but for generations to come. I heard the other day that the first above the knee amputee has returned to active duty serving in Iraq on behalf of his own request.  BTW I have served and I retire in 3 days. I hope my children follow in my footsteps proudly serving thier country as well.

I hope your children follow in your footsteps also,  and what I mean by that is that they come home save and sound.   In the mean time just because a soldier with a above the knee amputation decides he wants to go back to Iraq does not mean that this country still needs to be there.   Most soldiers when interviewed are there because they want to be with there buddies, if there unit is there then that's where they want to be.  Maybe some believe in the cause some don't but they have a job to do and that is what they are doing.

Now just because some of us think the war is lost (due to GW incompetence) and can't be won, and we don't like seeing our soldiers killed in a battle that can't be won does not mean we are not "good americans" or that we are "peace loving hippies" it means maybe just maybe we care more about human life than some of the "compassionate christian conservatives. 

You'll notice you don't hear anyone complaining about Afghanistan do you, do you ever wonder why?  The reason is simple, everyone agrees going into Afghanistan was the right thing to do plain and simple.  If it is the right move (which Afghanistan was) then most Americans will be all for it.  But the problem with Iraq is that your president went in with too few troops and on top of that he pulled some troops out of Afghanistan (took his eye off the real problem) and sent them to Iraq, so now Afghanistan is not looking good for us.  George Bush is the main problem in Afghanistan and Iraq and until he is gone nothing will change.  Both wars were winnable at one time but Iraq is lost now no matter what we do but there is still hope for Afghanistan.

Whats wrong with loving nature and protecting our greatest asset? Will you be happier when the earth looks like mars.

Fish - That has got to be the best response I have seen while reading this entire thread.

I've been there and done that as a Military Policeman with 545 days boots on ground.

Sgt. Tassillo
101st Airborne Div.
551 Military Police Company
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:2R1PsN9Go1brvM:http://www.providence.edu/mil/docs/aawings.gif)
Air Assualt!!

Thank you, and a very special thank you  :bow.gif :bow.gif for serving our country.

i have never served in the armed forces. but both my grandpas were in WWII and my uncle was in the Vietnam war. And I doubt if my grandfathers were alive they would be in support of the Iraq war. And I am too old to enlist now but if i was younger I would have no problem signing up. I think Fish summed up the way I feel about Iraq. Maybe I did not choose the best words to use but I think our resources could be used better.     

http://youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg&feature=user (http://youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg&feature=user)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ukv85nc-VOA (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ukv85nc-VOA)

Things that make you go hmmmm.

your one of those tree hugers ain't you, i bet you believe in the whole global warming caused by cars thing too don't ya? lmao

oh man, phew i gota try and contan myself wilburz, what you just said is the most ignorant and stupid thing i ever heard

first off president bush wasnt planning on 9/11 happening, which got us into war

another thing is that there is more than just us, we cant just be self contained and help ourselves, if we dont get involved with foreign affairs we will be left behind and crumble ourelves

i think you have more to worry about then one of Husseins weapons, i hope you run into one of those marines that are out there fighting for your freedom to say stupid stuff like that

I guess all that smog in L.A. is cause by Mexican farts then. I don't think cars are the main polluter but there not helping. You tell me what is causing global warming. Let me guess that you don't believe in global warming. :-\ 

I rather hug a tree than a flowmaster exhaust like you. Don't take mother nature for granted.

:R :R :R :R :R :R :H :R :R

Ha Ha Ha don't mess with Mother Nature.....Another poor soul in the Gore Camp

you need to watch this pretty Eye opening............

http://youtube.com/watch?v=a8oe-CSA4wQ (http://youtube.com/watch?v=a8oe-CSA4wQ)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gNrGhekg8GI&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=gNrGhekg8GI&feature=related)

ok. thanks for the compliments water boy.  you are the most pitiful human piece of waste on the earth! I am sorry your daddy don't talk to you know more or that you were ignored as a child. Your a friggin dumb arse!

as for your comments, 9/11 was not caused by Iraq or any Iraqies! So why invade Iraq? That is one of the stupidest things i have ever read. How old are you boy? 

And we are involved in too many world affairs. Iraq is one cluster-f I think we could avoid. The remark about Iraq weapons was a joke you dork. We never found any WMD's. Remember? I hope I do run into a marine one day. I would have not problem stating my opposition to the Iraq war.

Your dumb!

Wilburz, we should of attacked Saudi Arabia thats who finance 911, But wait there our allies. I guess there off limits then, our friends.
I amazing how dumb and naive people can be. Please wake up red necks put down the meth pipe and turn of the brain washing talk radio. 8)

WMD were found just not in the quanties to make the media happy even though a little bit of that stuff can kill lots and lots of people
as for some of your other comments:

As for health care / get a Job or join the military
Pre kindergarden / Spend quality time after work with your children teaching them yourself
Housing crisis  / well people did that to themselves I have a house with a 30 year fixed rate and have no problems
College /  join the military , college is almost free while on active duty and when you get out use your GI BILL
Tax relief / support the fair tax so everyone contributes to the tax system

Today I retired from 20 years of service, sometimes I wonder why I stayed in so long protecting people which all they can do is complain about life around them or its me me me . Sit down and enjoy life, and live it to its fullest, when you can thank a Service member esp those guys from Vietnam there thanks is long over due.  That's my .02

John R Boucher AKA (Bobby Boucher "The WaterBoy") USN RET


(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/619968/fullsize/last-flight-3-19-08.jpg)

if i remember correctly, i watched george w. give a speech to the us population telling everyone they were going into iraq to get all the WMDs. then none were found. i am just going on what he said and did not find.  And the comments about the taxes, housing, health care were taken from a story that was in the washington post a while ago. it was just to tell you what the money wasted in iraq could buy. i personally don't get welfare or any handouts from the governement but i do pay my taxes. And some people are born with handicaps that prevent them from being able to join the military.  I would much rather the government take all the iraq war money and even my taxes paid, since i don't get much back from them,and give it out to each and every veteran and there families! Especially those with disabilites. Those are the people that deserve to be taken care of. And thanks for your service Bobby! Just becuase people don't agree with the war in Iraq does not mean that they are not patriotic!       

ALRIGHT WILBUR I BET IT'S REAL EASY TO BE A HARDASS ON THE INTERNET, THEN YOU INSULT ME WITHOUT KNOWING ONE THING ABOUT ME, I HOPE I SEE YOUR PU$$Y ASS IN PALM BEACH SOME TIME, BEFORE YOU 13ITCH GO SERVE

Never said anyone was un-patriotic, Just tired of hearing the same things over and over again. My prayers go out to all of the families who have lost a loved one over there, but remember everyone them volunteered to go, to support freedom. I always told my wife (if I ever crashed and died please don't disrespect me by trying to sue the goverment it was my choice to fly). Instead of yelling about Iraq and what george bush should have done, turn your neg energy into something positive and make a difference in the world. 

:Clap.gif

It was not my intention to disrespect you and i was not trying to be a hardass. I am sorry that you saw it that way.  And I am not seeing the insult. I actually thought i thanked you for your service.     

alright my bad bro, sorry just been having some problems this week didnt mean to take it out in here

Thanks for your service John R Boucher AKA (Bobby Boucher "The WaterBoy") USN RET and Butch's  :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif

and in a couple weeks I'll have some of these with ya........ :T :T :T :Y oh/ yeah!!

Just a reminder on the WMD thing. There was a unanimous vote in the house and senate to enter Iraq to find WMD's. Hillary and the rest of the liberals voted whole heartedly for it just like everyone else.

Just making sure everyone stays fully informed on the facts. Now, you guys get back to the squabble. It's pretty funny to watch.

You're welcome. ;)

the last thing i want to do is insult a service member. i started this thread , i guess, to remind everyone of the loss of life and i guess that it does not come cheap. it is good to discuss these issues. obviously not everone has the same thought and feelings and this topic can be very personal to some. I doubt many actually know the number of casualties involved.   

It still kills me after all this time we still want to blame the war on George Bush give me a break....He went on the same intelligence reports that everyone else did and they all believed it too.....and they did find WMD's maybe not the cache that we were all told about....they are still finding some even today.... and by the way all these people with the YEA's also sent us to WAR!

.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 107th Congress - 2nd Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate


Vote Summary

Question: On the Joint Resolution (H.J.Res. 114 )  
Vote Number:  237 Vote Date:  October 11, 2002, 12:50 AM
Required For Majority:  1/2 Vote Result:  Joint Resolution Passed
Measure Number:  H.J.Res. 114
Measure Title:  A joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
Vote Counts: YEAs 77
 NAYs 23
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State


Alphabetical by Senator Name Akaka (D-HI), Nay
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Allen (R-VA), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Nay
Breaux (D-LA), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burns (R-MT), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Nay
Campbell (R-CO), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Carnahan (D-MO), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Chafee (R-RI), Nay
Cleland (D-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Nay
Corzine (D-NJ), Nay
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
Daschle (D-SD), Yea
Dayton (D-MN), Nay
DeWine (R-OH), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
 Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Edwards (D-NC), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Fitzgerald (R-IL), Yea
Frist (R-TN), Yea
Graham (D-FL), Nay
Gramm (R-TX), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Helms (R-NC), Yea
Hollings (D-SC), Yea
Hutchinson (R-AR), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Nay
Jeffords (I-VT), Nay
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Nay
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Nay
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
 McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Nay
Miller (D-GA), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Nay
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Nickles (R-OK), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Nay
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Santorum (R-PA), Yea
Sarbanes (D-MD), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Smith (R-NH), Yea
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Thomas (R-WY), Yea
Thompson (R-TN), Yea
Thurmond (R-SC), Yea
Torricelli (D-NJ), Yea
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Wellstone (D-MN), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Nay
 
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State


Grouped By Vote Position YEAs ---77
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bond (R-MO)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Campbell (R-CO)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
Daschle (D-SD)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
 Edwards (D-NC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Hutchinson (R-AR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
 McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Miller (D-GA)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Nickles (R-OK)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Santorum (R-PA)
Schumer (D-NY)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-NH)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thompson (R-TN)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Torricelli (D-NJ)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
 
NAYs ---23
Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
 Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
 Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)
 
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State


Grouped by Home State Alabama: Sessions (R-AL), Yea Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Alaska: Murkowski (R-AK), Yea Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Arizona: Kyl (R-AZ), Yea McCain (R-AZ), Yea
Arkansas: Hutchinson (R-AR), Yea Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
California: Boxer (D-CA), Nay Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Colorado: Allard (R-CO), Yea Campbell (R-CO), Yea
Connecticut: Dodd (D-CT), Yea Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Delaware: Biden (D-DE), Yea Carper (D-DE), Yea
Florida: Graham (D-FL), Nay Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Georgia: Cleland (D-GA), Yea Miller (D-GA), Yea
Hawaii: Akaka (D-HI), Nay Inouye (D-HI), Nay
Idaho: Craig (R-ID), Yea Crapo (R-ID), Yea
Illinois: Durbin (D-IL), Nay Fitzgerald (R-IL), Yea
Indiana: Bayh (D-IN), Yea Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Iowa: Grassley (R-IA), Yea Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Kansas: Brownback (R-KS), Yea Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Kentucky: Bunning (R-KY), Yea McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Louisiana: Breaux (D-LA), Yea Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Maine: Collins (R-ME), Yea Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Maryland: Mikulski (D-MD), Nay Sarbanes (D-MD), Nay
Massachusetts: Kennedy (D-MA), Nay Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Michigan: Levin (D-MI), Nay Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Minnesota: Dayton (D-MN), Nay Wellstone (D-MN), Nay
Mississippi: Cochran (R-MS), Yea Lott (R-MS), Yea
Missouri: Bond (R-MO), Yea Carnahan (D-MO), Yea
Montana: Baucus (D-MT), Yea Burns (R-MT), Yea
Nebraska: Hagel (R-NE), Yea Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Nevada: Ensign (R-NV), Yea Reid (D-NV), Yea
New Hampshire: Gregg (R-NH), Yea Smith (R-NH), Yea
New Jersey: Corzine (D-NJ), Nay Torricelli (D-NJ), Yea
New Mexico: Bingaman (D-NM), Nay Domenici (R-NM), Yea
New York: Clinton (D-NY), Yea Schumer (D-NY), Yea
North Carolina: Edwards (D-NC), Yea Helms (R-NC), Yea
North Dakota: Conrad (D-ND), Nay Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Ohio: DeWine (R-OH), Yea Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Oklahoma: Inhofe (R-OK), Yea Nickles (R-OK), Yea
Oregon: Smith (R-OR), Yea Wyden (D-OR), Nay
Pennsylvania: Santorum (R-PA), Yea Specter (R-PA), Yea
Rhode Island: Chafee (R-RI), Nay Reed (D-RI), Nay
South Carolina: Hollings (D-SC), Yea Thurmond (R-SC), Yea
South Dakota: Daschle (D-SD), Yea Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Tennessee: Frist (R-TN), Yea Thompson (R-TN), Yea
Texas: Gramm (R-TX), Yea Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Utah: Bennett (R-UT), Yea Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Vermont: Jeffords (I-VT), Nay Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Virginia: Allen (R-VA), Yea Warner (R-VA), Yea
Washington: Cantwell (D-WA), Yea Murray (D-WA), Nay
West Virginia: Byrd (D-WV), Nay Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Wisconsin: Feingold (D-WI), Nay Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Wyoming: Enzi (R-WY), Yea Thomas (R-WY), Yea
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State

We've beat this dead horse in the past. Here's a post I made back in November 2007 in response to certain numbered questions and comments another site member posted. It was a good discussion:

1.  Before the invasion of Iraq when one of the generals was addressing congress and he said we would need over 250,000 troops for the invasion and occupation he was forced to resign because the administration was trying to say it would take a lot less.

Interesting comment. I say interesting in that the liberals have preached withdrawing and fewer troops from day one. Bush and many other conservative leaders called for a build up from the start. It was the liberal left that kept screaming, "withdraw...get out" without an exit strategy. (Come on, now we all remember Lieberman, Kerry and the others flip flopping on their support for the war and screaming about pulling out our troops on an expedited basis.) Even their recent attempt to force a pull out by attaching a withdrawal measure to a war funding bill could not muster enough votes in a Democrat controlled Congress to pass. Yet the Dems still have to appease the anti - war left while straddling the fence post to satisfy the moderates in the party whose constituency is against their surrender agenda.

2.  I believe as others do that GW Doctored the intelligence reports to make it appear that the war with Iraq was needed because of weapons of mass destruction.  I will admit that Saddam Hussein did try to make it appear that he did have weapons of mass destruction but we had evidence to prove otherwise and he ignored it.

You act as if it was only Bush and his administration that waved the WMD flag. The Democrats were right there with him and in fact provided the majority of the push to initially go into Iraq. Here's a few excerpts from liberal democrats' speeches and memos to the President prior to entering Iraq:

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation." -- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

"Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States." -- Joe Lieberman, August, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998

So, if you follow this doctored the documants theory, that means Bush doctored everyone's reports and insiders and nobody caught it? Come one man. You can do better.

That's a lot of speech by a lot of Liberal Democrats promising WMD's and results. Not just Bush folks.

Not bad for costing us $18 Billion a month and $8 Trillion since the day we were there.  It was a mistake going their in the 1st place.  What weapons of mass destruction are you gunna find in that $it hole anywas? Oh Ya OIL! 

Anoriginal, yes your right about both parties voting for the war. I think most that voted thought that we were going to get the weapons and Hussein and then get out. Let the Iraqi's establish there own government and do there own rebuilding. Trust me they would of probably do better than were doing right now anyways. There going to be a civil war regardless.
So since then Bush and his administration has been lying to us, dragging there feet, driving up oil prices, pissing of everbody in that region, and so on. The Iraqi people were recently asked is it better now or then, and guess what they picked. They don't want us there so lets get out now. I truly think this administration or whats left of it since almost everyone has resigned in shame, is over there to keep the economy going because we all know the war stimulates the economy. Plus all the crooked contract deals that have been going on.
So basically thank Israel too, there lobbyist are the one that have been greasing our politicians for years for protection, weapons and the military might. And now there pushing for us to attack Iran. like Iran is a threat come on give me a break. Even if they did get a nuke they don't have the ability do deliver it any farther than 1000 miles. Oh wait that can hit Israel. I guess Israel will get it's war machine fired up AKA-(american military slaves) to defend them.
America need to wake up and realise every thing our government does is because of lobbyist. Sad but true! I like when you military guy's say fighting for freedom and the american way your wrong your fighting for the lobbyist.

Something to laugh at that you fools voted for!

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3A_MQR-v54

 ViO ViO

My .02.  This was not soppuse to take long.  We go in take care of Hussein and scare everybody off.  That did not work and now we can't leave because if we do then the Terrorist think they won and more people join their ideas of the U.S.  We pull out we lose we stay we lose less.  Not meaning that more soldier lives are less than someone else's let's not go putting words in my mouth.  By that statement I mean that the number of soldiers compared to the possble number of american civilians ON and OFF U.S. soil could easily be higher.  Old statement but yet still good example, how many died in 9/11, how many died in the Cole attack, how many died in the barracks attack of the Marines barracks ( I fdo forget when though), and how long did each of these attacks take MINUTES, 5 YEARS in Iraq, do the math.   Again just my .02.

Amen Brotha! ;)

Well, he's definitely not the best public speaker. Even he acknowledges it. However, I'd take him over the ultra liberal beyond left Obama or the loose cannon Clinton any day.

As much as I regret he's the republican nominee, I will be pulling for McCain all the way.

neither party offers us much of anything in my opinion...it's disgusting watching anything related to these campaigns...nothing but smear campaigns and hollywood glitz.  This country is going to h*// in a handbasket and everyone is too wrapped up in their own petty "wanna make more money so i can get bigger rims" lives to give a crap.  I know someone needs to give this country a kick in the rear and a wake up call. 

...o.k. i'm done ranting

^ Agreed. I love how the liberals take clips of speech mistakes and post them together to belittle someone. Yet you dont see them saying sh*t about Hilary bullshitting saying how he was under sniper fire when they flew into bosnia.(http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/26/hillaryclinton.barackobama) Or how obama's wife has continued to bad mouth this country and how because her husband wins a primary its the "first time ive ever been proud of this country" (http://www.breitbart.tv/html/49244.html) G.W. Sure isnt the president his father was, to be honest Jeb would have made a better president, but atleast you dont see him constantly putting other people down. He has gotten pretty good at taking shots from people without it hurting his day to day life and decisions. Regardless of his politics, that is the type of person you need in the white house, democrat or republican. Somone who can take heat and not crack.

edit: I think john mccain is a f**k**g chipmunk for the record.

As much as the thought makes me sick to my stomach, I'd take Hillary over Obama any day. He's a nut case.

Jeb is a crook just like his father and brother. He's the one the fu** up Florida's insurance. He took millions from insurance co's. and never did sh*t about soaring rates. He just look the other way. He gave insurance companies basically the law books and said here you go re right them.
That video was from Pat Buchanan, a republican. Here we go with liberal talk again. How about McCain poking a lobbyist, you don't get any worst than that and I don't here the media talking about that all the time. Wake up, no more meth for you. ;)

I think I'm going green big A















               R.N.   :-X

haha yea, started quite the debate with just saying one opinion, its funny how things work sometimes

Way to go Ralphie boy!!!!! 

You know, all BS aside...he'd probably do a pretty good job.

i bet you would love to hear how i take any emissions controls like egrs and cats off of anything i get my hands on too lol. i do think global arming is real, but i also think that cars pretty much contribute nothing, all of us driving hybrids wont change a thing and all of us driving chipped out diesels with no cats wouldn't change anything either.

the greenhouse effect contributes to global warming but the main cause is changes in the suns output and its position to the earth.
there are many other things contributing but i assure you, our emissions isn't causing global warming

so simply put egrs and cats kill mpg for nothing more than a myth... and its ruining diesel performance

believe what you want to believe but i will continue to put out more emissions in a day than your car does in a year because I'm smarter than that to leave mpg killing emissions crap on my truck.

Wow your smarter than all the scientist in the world. Your on the far right, you sound like a carbon copy of Rush Limbaugh. Rush is right!!! ;)
By the way your first paragraph says you don't believe in global warming and in your second paragraph you say green house gasses do contribute and in your third paragraph you assure us that it doesn't  :-X
There is proof of the O-zone layer is thinner thats a fact. Its a fact the green house gasses are causing it. It's manly cause by factory's, cars do increase the gasses too. I think they need to consentrate on the factory's especially in china and India.
I like how the government banning 2 stroke weed eaters, oh thats going to help. I guess its easy picking on the small guy.

LOL I remember when I was the smartest man in the world

i meant i dont belive in it being caused by cars, and the greenhouse gasses contribute but it isnt even close to whats causign global warming... u know what meant, ur realy digin to bash me now, its only a mater of time before you start bashing me for spelling and punctuation at this point

another reason i rarely come on this forum anymore, i dont get taken seriously by anyone becasue "im 17 and know it all". i never claimed to knwo it all because a realy dont but when it comes to things that a want to know about i know just as much as you all do regaurdless of age.

ill go back to fsc forum were they arent a bunch of tree hugers and take me seriously even tho im 17.

its a shame this forum used to be such a good one a few years ago, realy gone down hill. i was literaly amazed when i saw how many liberals are on here, odd seeing it on a atv forum?

I'm a true old fashion conservative, not like all these fake conservative of today. My views are more of the likes of Ron Paul. And a true conservative cares about the enviroment. It doesn't make you a wussy! ;)

[/quote]Wow your smarter than all the scientist in the world. Your on the far right, you sound like a carbon copy of Rush Limbaugh. Rush is right!!! ;)
By the way your first paragraph says you don't believe in global warming and in your second paragraph you say green house gasses do contribute and in your third paragraph you assure us that it doesn't  :-X
There is proof of the O-zone layer is thinner thats a fact. Its a fact the green house gasses are causing it. It's manly cause by factory's, cars do increase the gasses too. I think they need to consentrate on the factory's especially in china and India.
I like how the government banning 2 stroke weed eaters, oh thats going to help. I guess its easy picking on the small guy.
[/quote]

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p357.htm
thats around 19000 scientists that agree with me...

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/start.html
i found this much more informative than "an inconvenient truth"

Wow your smarter than all the scientist in the world. Your on the far right, you sound like a carbon copy of Rush Limbaugh. Rush is right!!! ;)
By the way your first paragraph says you don't believe in global warming and in your second paragraph you say green house gasses do contribute and in your third paragraph you assure us that it doesn't  :-X
There is proof of the O-zone layer is thinner thats a fact. Its a fact the green house gasses are causing it. It's manly cause by factory's, cars do increase the gasses too. I think they need to consentrate on the factory's especially in china and India.
I like how the government banning 2 stroke weed eaters, oh thats going to help. I guess its easy picking on the small guy.
[/quote]

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p357.htm
thats around 19000 scientists that agree with me...

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/start.html
i found this much more informative than "an inconvenient truth"
[/quote]If it were true about the earths tilt is off. then why are the some of parimids in mexico that are align by sun light and are still are true today?

Welcome back HARRY-SACS dust off your umm huh balls and stay awhile this time

Thats sum funny sheeeat!!!