Messages

[Public land]

no it just some empty land by my house and you can see that people ride there frm google earth and i wana know if it legal because it is public land

Are there any "No Trespassing" signs??   Even if there aren't doesn't necessarily mean that it's Public land.

Most likely it ISN'T legal, because SOMEONE owns the land.  If it's the government(city, county, or state) they usually designate whether it is legal.  Unfortunately, most times its not.

Try (as previously suggested) to hook up with someone or surf this site & a few others to educate yourself on the legal areas.  Most entail traveling to get to them. ie Croom, Holeyland, etc.

Hope this helps & welcome to the same problem that we all face!!!

Off Rode

I'll take a drink sometime,,,,I wanna go now because I didn't know how great it looked before.

I'll bring some trash bags with me though.

Id@

Man I'd go ride the place right now! ANy time is the right time. It looks like the rain has moved off.

I got some other threads with pics in em if you look. I better go check them for bad things!!

Any time you want to go, I'll be there man.

I was out there on Friday with MY KIDS. 6 & 9 yr old.  Funny thing is we rode straight to that camp without any knowledge of it or bad intentions.  I saw it on the horizon & went for it.  NO, we didn't enter the yard we actually turned around 200 yards away.  My point is these CAMPS are not exactly fenced off or identified with clear cut boundaries.  I can see that they must get alot of CURIOUS riders that come by or even in the yard.  I know logic would have you figure that where the sawgrass ends & the grass begins would be a clue.  It's a very nice looking camp!!  I can't imagine what the mosquito count is like in the middle of JULY :G

As JackL said, the conditions are right for riding in Holeyland & it is still LEGAL to ride there.  Enjoy & clean up some trash, the buzzards can't seem to keep up with it

I was there on Sunday, what time did this happen? 

about 4 - 5 pm.  I don't think you could miss the circling helicopter(s)  Trauma Hawk & probably News

I was out there yesterday & it didn't look nearly as bad as the time prior.   There were a zillion people so I don't know if all of the vehicles hid the trash.  It was a nice change.  I guess going out there today would show what the weekend had produced.

***More negative publicity in the form of injured riders requiring Trauma Hawk, BSO, AMR, & Fire Rescue to respond out there.

I agree with Dig & Thrumud.  I also do not want to lose hope, but it'll be hard to protest/defend Holeyland against the many issues that seemingly have not changed out there.  Now, if the biologist is collecting data, I too can't believe that it is in the defense of OHV's use of the area.

We can only hope that the State/County & any other agencies involved would attempt a solution instead of totally banning OHV's.  I know the RALLY sounds valiant, but look at Holeyland & tell me you couldn't list multiple things that are going wrong out there.

I'm actually surprised that you don't hear near as much discussion about Big Cypress.  I haven't ridden out there in many years but I guess the whole registration process eliminates a small % of riders.

We shall see...............

I seriously think we need to have an entrance fee.That will take away 3/4 of the idiots that dont really care about riding.

Remember, this is a WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AREA.  That brings in regulation from the county & state levels.  There are some WMA's that have a daily user fee but it is not usually an astronomical amount(a few dollars) & alot of times on the honor system.  I don't think that would be a deterant for the abusers of this area since it is one of the few remaining places.  Big Cypress has issues of it's own & it has National Park status with Rangers.  They can't eliminate it there so I would think enforcement in Holeyland would be more difficult to accomplish.  You will open another can of worms when you try to institute an "entrance fee" when it comes to the hunting community.  I say that because they will point the finger of blame at "recreational riders" for all of the issues we are discussing.  I still believe that it boils down to the users themselves.  Think about it, if noone littered, got injured, broke the existing laws out there, etc.........The county & state WOULDN'T have anything to scrutinize & therefore wouldn't have any reason to intervene.  It happens all the time when people congregate in numbers & things get out of hand.  Example, Columbus Day Regatta & Bartenders week in the Keys @ the sandbar.  Just 2 examples & they already have law enforcement shows about regulating the crowd & crimes.  It seems that it is unavoidable.  I just hope they don't have a "COPS" episode on Holeyland anytime soon

Guys, I left a message 3/1 no reply yet. Will call tomorrow.

Thanks again, Thrumud. :ThumbsUp.gif

LITTERING is only one of the problems.  Don't start the fingerpointing it is NOT constructive. :no  Holeyland is still currently OPEN for riding, :Clap.gif practice what we preach & hopefully it will set the example. :T

Is it really any surprise.  They wrote it to fail from the beginning.

I suppose they feel good about the CHANCE we had.

Why anyone would write a law to allow minors to operate unlicensed motorized vehicles on regular roads :drive.gif doesn't make sense, :Wacko.gif so it makes perfect sense that it FAILED :ouch.gif

Hope Holeyland survives..........

Spoke with Jason Huckabee from FWC, they will be having a meeting Monday (not public) regarding new restrictions at Holey Land & Rotenberger.  He will call me late Monday with an update.  Things are about to change out there !   If you wish to speak to Jason contact FWC at 561-625-5122 please becareful and be wise with what you say.

I guess we will wait with hope.  I HOPE they don't shut it down completely.

Thrumud, thanks for the involvement.  Keep us posted.

I agree with Anoriginal's theory.  I was speaking from personal experience & I have been to many of the WMA's from Central to South FL, from ones that allowed Atv's to never had allowed them & I can honestly say a blind man could see the difference now the ATV crowd has shown it's presence........... :tsktsk.gif

we'll have ourselves another Cecil Webb area for buggies only.

Cecil Webb has NEVER allowed ATV's.  Funny how they DON'T have a problem.

I guess this is where the idea of PROHIBITING them originated.

Again, I will reiterate.  I hunt & have been doing so for decades with Atc's/ATV's.  I do not recall any issues anywhere near what ATVer's have brought on.
Literally, there is a quota hunt for Cecil Webb that takes place in the Fall.(No ATV's allowed)  There used to be 500 people there for the weekend.  When the campground emptied out on Sunday afternoon/night there was minimal garbage if any!!  What's up with that??

What if they/we posted a sign reminding of the area's rules/laws???   Helpful??

D I if you can get fwc to get us a stop sign like the ones they use for the hunting season traffic maybe I/we (anyone willing to help) I will make some flyers and also print out some rally flyers to pass out along with 1 trash bag per vehicle intering Holeyland to explain how inportant it is to cleanup after themselves this is only an idea but 1 idea may make the difference and maybe get an fwc officer to sit with us for a while and get the media to show up let me know Willing and able I will get the trash bags and print flyers on notice

I honestly believe this is the approach that needs to be made.  It's EDUCATION.  I know the members of this forum are not the ones who are messing it up.  We have got to try to educate people out there & that's going to happen by educating them while they're out there.  NOT everyone is logging onto a forum & disregarding the issues.  We need to reach the "LOCAL" crowd out there!!!

Excellent suggestion.............hopefully we'll get participation on the garbage bag side of the idea.

[it's a statewide problem.]

This is not a Palm Beach County problem, it's a statewide problem. Some areas are simply not conducive for ATV operation. I wish I had better news.

The question is the State or the County willing to come up with some plan other than outlaw ATV's.  You know that the offenders will keep riding & gambling getting caught when there is no place LEGAL left to ride.  It'll be like drug dealers, they do it, they get caught, they do time, then they do it all over again.  It create's a vicious cycle, and one that will not be eliminated.  Thus, it gives drug dealers a bad name.  Is this a bad analogy?  The only reason I ask is because WE (our society) has not & cannot eliminate DRUG DEALING.  There isn't anywhere in this country that it is legal & we still have a HUGE problem.  Is THAT problem fixed?? I think not.

I would be hopeful that the state or perhaps a county could come up with some plan to work with the issue instead of ABANDONMENT.  Perhaps treating it like regular motorists.  Citations for infractions, etc. If they run from you I'm sure that ups the ante, confinscate the bike.  You already have a task force & I know that many other areas of the state do also in addition to FWC & other agencies.  Is anything of this nature possible or is it too late?

It's not an easy transition............and the easy way out we will lose.

[30]

Someone from FWC will call me tomorrow concerning the issues at Holey Land. I will keep you posted.

The following rules apply at Holey Land: 

1. All ATV's must have flags
2. All children under the age of 16 must wear eye protection and a helmet
3. Speed limit on the levees is 35 MPH & they are posted.

My buddy John was 2 up with his 6 yr old and he was stopped by FWC and they told him he was endangering a minor and told him to pack up. I never heard of this at Holey Land, has anyone ?

1. The flags are supposed to be 10 X 12 (at least) rectangular.  There aren't many places that sell them in that shape compared to the triangles.

3. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe the posted speed limit is 30

[there was a fatal crash and the rider had to be airlifted out of there.]

I saw 2 wrecks, in 20 minutes at the crossover on Saturday. Both involved knuckle heads doing wheelies on the bridge and levy, no helmets on either one, one rider ran into the back of one of his buddies doing a wheelie the other rider looped his bike. I also happened to be at Holey Land last year when there was a fatal crash and the rider had to be airlifted out of there.   

THAT'S a huge component on PROHIBITING ATV's. 

It does seem ironic that they will fine you for having the wrong shaped safety flag all the while you don't need a thing to protect your coconut!!

Hey kawGIRL,

Where do you ride?? :box.gif :ouch.gif :Dead.gif :L

Opening up some lines of communication is a great thing to do. I think meeting with the FWC would show them that there are ATV riders out there that actually care about and appreciate a place to ride.

One word of caution though; be sure you have someone capable of communicating on a rational/educated level with them when you meet. The reason I say this is because I've heard several folks joking about someone from the ATV community who was the most vocal at the Picayune media day a few months back. I do not know who this person was or what they did. However, everyone seems to think he was a dunbazz. Most of the comments contained "ghetto", "gangsta" and "moron". So, probably need to pick one person to do the talking and have the rest show up in silent support.  We want to make sure anyone representing us leaves a good impression.

Definitely, we don't need anymore BAD publicity. 

I'd try to make that meeting since I'm so close.  I can't say that I have a good gut feeling about succeeding on issues that have already put a permanent stain on this sport.

1st the  littering would be impossible to eliminate without the OFFENDERS themselves straightening up their own acts.
     I don't think that more FWC officers are going to be able to catch each person who litters & seemingly not alot of people feel
     obligated to pick up trash that isn't their own(not to mention trash that is their own).
     
I think that since the commission put up speed limit signs, perhaps NO LITTERING signs may help prime the pump.  Some type of dumpster or means to offer a place to get rid of one's own garbage --- but that takes $$$$.

2nd How do you decrease the BAD wrecks???  I don't know of how most occur but I'm willing to bet it's not while people are mud
     bogging.  It is probably more commonly related to speeding & poor judgement whether from alcohol/drugs or rider inexperience.

I think that perhaps they could BAN any alcohol.(Probably NOT a popular idea, but you have to give in order to get) Just ask anyone who has been to J.W. Corbett(No ATV's but it's a management area) = ZERO TOLERANCE for possessing alcohol - that means you cannot even have a closed container anywhere, not legally anyway & they do fine for it.  You can't tell if someone's on drugs & the FWC isn't going to conduct arrests & check drug screenings.  It doesn't happen with regular motorists so it isn't feasible.

The only other things I can think of really start to dig into the freedoms that currently exist out there but probably add to the problem since the honor system isn't working.  

I am not really willing to give up yet since it is such a nice place to ride.

 

 :Wacko.gif

Great publicity for the sport!

Priceless!!!

[I am afraid that within the next 3 to 5 years ATV's in the Big Cypress and Holeylands will be a thing of the past.]

I hate to see this happening. I know the majority of the people on this site respect places to ride and want to see us keep them. However, it's being ruined by idiots with no concept of decency or impact. I am afraid that within the next 3 to 5 years ATV's in the Big Cypress and Holeylands will be a thing of the past.  Off Rode's comments are just another shining example why.

I think that's a GENEROUS estimation to be truthful.  We are currently living on a stay of execution, sadly.

In addition to my original post, there was enough garbage there to fill the dump truck AGAIN and then some......

We need an offroad street sweeper truck, literally.

[Yes the County did "OPT OUT"]

Yes the County did "OPT OUT" and there is STILL NO RIDING out there.
There are Undercover Cops out there that will impound your bikes and Vehicles/trailers.
NO WARNINGS ISSUED!

Nuff said, I was just trying to be hopeful...............It doesn't work.

 :banghead.gif :cursing.gif :gh :gr :K :Dead.gif

BOY, what a waste of time that was cleaning up the parking area!!!!!!!!

I just returned from riding out there THIS MORNING & the area is FULL of trash.  The first exclamation was by my son who bellowed out, "This is rediculous!!  We just cleaned this whole place up and look at it".

That is way too quick of a turn around from the clean up we just had.  I am thoroughly convinced there is not much time left out there for ATV's.  The accidents & trash alone gives them enough reason to shut it down.

Enjoy it while you can, cause it won't be long before it is another PROHIBITED area!! :tsktsk.gif

It is illegal to ride out there period. Even if you have a registered atv. Some people just ride anyways till they get caught.

I guess that would mean that Okeechobee county OPTED out??

Otherwise, there are no POSTED speed limit signs which SHOULD equate to residential speed limits & unless the county opted out it would be LEGAL to ride the roads.  We were told (in January) that you are NOT allowed to park your truck on the side of any dirt road.  IT'S ILLEGAL.  If you park it on someone's lot, it's trespassing.........   


Oh well, what do the local residents do there???  I can't believe that NONE of them are NOT riding around.....

Thanks for the reply