ATV Florida Forum

General => Tech Corner => Topic started by: UncleRico on September 22, 2005, 07:14:00 PM



Title: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: UncleRico on September 22, 2005, 07:14:00 PM
Just out of curiousity, has anyone ever thought about filling their tires with helium?

Theoretically it sounds like it might make a difference. 

Just something to think about...anyone up for trying it?


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: johnnygun on September 22, 2005, 07:16:09 PM
i already tried....just made the exhaust sound funny.

ok, really. why? flotation?


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: Chillinthemost on September 23, 2005, 07:58:13 PM
Not helium but nitrogen

What is Nitrogen?

Nitrogen is a dry, inert gas used to inflate airplane tires, off-road truck tires, military vehicle tires, and race car tires for improved performance, more tire mileage and better fuel economy.

Why use Nitrogen?

Less inflation pressure loss
Reduced wheel corrosion
Prevents inner-liner rubber deterioration by oxidation
Tires run cooler
Increases tread life
Increases fuel mileage
Helps prevent uneven wear

Oxygen in compressed air permeates through the wall of the tire, thus reducing the tire's inflation pressure. During it's journey through the tire wall, oxygen oxidizes the rubber compounds in the tire, causing under-inflation and deterioration of the rubber . Dry nitrogen will maintain proper inflation pressure and will prevent auto-ignition, will not corrode rims, extends valve core life, and will help the tire to run cooler.

The biggest advantages - improved tire life


Experts in the tire industry indicate that oxidative aging is one of the primary causes of decreased tire life. Oxidative aging is caused by the diffusion of oxygen from the pressurized air cavity of the tire to the outside atmosphere. Tests have shown that if tires are inflated with nitrogen, there is a significant reduction in tire failure.

 

Why did race cars, military and off-road vehicles switch to Nitrogen?

 Air is about 1/5 Oxygen, and oxygen, especially at high pressures and temperatures, is a very reactive element.
When oxygen reacts with things, the process is called oxidation. When oxidation is extremely rapid, it's called "burning.
That's one reason nitrogen is used in off-highway and aircraft tires. These tires run so hot they can actually catch on fire. Nitrogen doesn't support combustion, so nitrogen-filled tires don't add fuel to the flames. And nitrogen helps prevent slower forms of oxidation also.

Nitrogen prevents other types of corrosion as well


Oxygen and moisture corrodes aluminum and steel wheels. Oxygen also reacts with rubber, another type of "corrosion". When this corrosion starts, the small particles break off and form rust and dust, which can clog vavle cores, causing them to leak. The rough surfaces created from the corrosive action on the wheels leads to tire beads that don't seal properly, causing additional leaks .
Oxygen also ages the inner liner, the thin layer of rubber inside the tire whose function is to keep air away from the carcass. As the inner liner ages, more and more air molecules can pass through it, causing more pressure losses. These pressure losses in a truck tire can average 2 psi a month as a result of the air passing through the sidewalls. As it passes through the rubber, the oxygen can also corrode the steel cords, causing them to rust too.


How does Nitrogen help?

While both nitrogen and oxygen can permeate rubber, nitrogen does it much more slowly. It might take 6 months to lose 2 psi with nitrogen, compared to just a month with air. And nitrogen is far less reactive. It doesn't cause rust or corrosion on steel or aluminum, and it doesn't degrade rubber. Wheel surfaces stay smooth and clean, rubber remains supple and resilient.



 

Nitrogen also will not degrade the rubber seal in the valve core which extends valve core life and helps prevents core leaks.

Small bits of dust and debris as a byproduct of oxidative corrosion to the wheels and alloy rims can lodge in the valve core seat, causing air leaks.

 

 

Any other reasons for using Nitrogen?

Water!! The air around us is full of water vapor. Compressing air concentrates the water in it.
 

Draining the water from your compressor tank daily helps, but unless you have a really efficient air dryer system, chances are that there's a lot of water in your compressed air.
When you compress air, it takes up much less volume, but the percentage of water by
volume is greatly increased.

 

...and what harm does this moisture cause?


Water vapor in compressed air acts as a catalyst, accelerating rust and corrosion.  Water vapor also absorbs and holds heat. And when it changes from liquid to vapor, water expands tremendously in volume.
   As a result, tires inflated with wet air tend to run hotter and fluctuate in pressure more. That's one of the reasons why racing tires, where fractions of a psi can radically change the handling characteristics, are inflated with dry nitrogen.
Will my tires have 100% Nitrogen after they are filled?

In reality, no. The Ingersoll-Rand Nitrogen Generator puts out 98% pure Nitrogen. On an uninflated tire, there is still some air present, so after you refill with nitrogen, you'll end up with about 95% nitrogen, which is enough to do the job. That can be increased slightly by filling up the tire with nitrogen without a valve core in the valve stem, and then letting the tire delate. Then install the valve core and refill to normal pressure with the nitrogen. (purging)

 

For fleets - reduced operating costs
 
Tires are one of the primary costs of operating a fleet of vehicles. Tire costs include procurement, maintenance and the cost of blowouts.
A typical truck tire with two retreads costs $480.00 and lasts
approximately 270,000 miles. Inflating tires with nitrogen will help to prevent premature casing failure and allow tires to be retread
multiple times, with confidence and reliability.

Inflating tires with nitrogen to eliminate oxidative aging can extend tire life by up to 25%.

Increasing tire life to 337,500 miles would save $120 per tire.

A fleet with 50 trucks and 900 wheel positions would save over $100,000 in tire cost by inflating with nitrogen.

The primary cost of maintaining tires is the cost of labor to check tire
pressures and top off tires with compressed air on a periodic basis.
Tire pressure must be checked and the tires topped off due to the
diffusion of air through the tire. Tires filled with nitrogen will not
experience this diffusion and resulting loss of pressure. Tires
filled with nitrogen maintain pressure for a much longer period
of time than tires filled with air. If a truck fleet conducts preventative
maintenance on 5 trucks per day and presently spends 30 minutes
per truck topping off tires, they could realize savings of $31,250
per year based on a labor rate of $50 per hour and 250 work days
per year, by inflating tires with nitrogen.


A recent article from the Wall Street Journal states:

“One thing government and tire-industry officials agree on is the
importance of keeping tires properly inflated. The risks of
underinflation, which stresses tires by causing their sidewalls to flex more and the air temperature inside to rise, were highlighted during congressional hearings two years ago into the Firestone tire problems. Underinflation was identified as a factor in the failure of Firestone tires.”

Wall Street Journal, September 25, 2002.
 

 

Frequently asked questions.

Is Nitrogen explosive?
No, in fact, nitrogen is very inert and safe. Nitrogen is the most commonly used chemical in the USA. It is used for storing and packaging of snack foods, coffee, and other food items.
 

Will Nitrogen affect the tire pressure monitoring system on my vehicle?
Yes. Nitrogen will help maintain proper inflation in your tires and reduce the number of faults detected by the TPMS.

Do I still need to check tire pressure?
Yes. But, you should find the tire pressure to be more consistent.

What about my spare tire?
You should certainly inflate your spare with nitrogen to help maintain proper inflation when it comes time you need to use it. Because of the slower air pressure loss of nitrogen through the sidewalls, your spare is more likely to be at proper pressure over a long time than if it was filled with regular air.

 
 



Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: nATiVcracker on September 23, 2005, 08:23:06 PM
HOLY SH*T BATMAN !!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: lugnuts on September 23, 2005, 08:53:08 PM
we just got a nitrogren fill at my work and put in my truck tires you can tell the difference but have not put it in my zilla yet

well said chillinthemost!!  ;D


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: SSRancher on September 24, 2005, 11:04:58 AM
Costco has been doing Nitrogen for at least a year now. It's definitly a sweet concept.


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: Shotgun on September 24, 2005, 11:48:24 AM
I fill all my tires with distilled water, not tap water!


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: wilburz on September 26, 2005, 08:43:23 AM
CHillin you know your nitrogen! Any knowledge of carbon dating? ;D 


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: Truegrit on September 26, 2005, 10:51:47 AM
Nitrogen will work well. But Helium, if you remeber from chemisrty class at the top of the Periodic Table (Atomic #2). Which means atomicly it is very small. This and the fact it is inert (non-reactive) are the reasons it is used as a gas for checking leaks in high pressure tubing and simlar systems.

Basically you would be refilling your tires very often. Nitrogen is a much better choice it is clean, freeof oils and other contaminants. Although in an ATV tire the benifits do not out weigh the hassel of locating a source. Unless you have it redily available to you.


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: Chillinthemost on September 26, 2005, 09:20:03 PM
helium has been proven to make you jump farther ;) and on hill climbs your bike just seems to kinda float right up  ;)


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: LT-R450ApK on September 26, 2005, 09:37:22 PM
Will it make mine float??  ;)


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: Bigscrb15 on September 26, 2005, 11:13:48 PM
I heard the helium will make your bike have a very high pitch exhaust tone.


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: Honda250ex on September 27, 2005, 09:02:46 AM
If it has longer life then h#ll yea


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: Yamaha72 on September 27, 2005, 09:22:09 AM
Where can you get your tires filled with nitrogen???? sounds like a good idea. :bow.gif


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: Nocturnal on September 28, 2005, 06:04:19 AM
Mostly all welding shops carry nitrogen. However, I don't know whether or not they would fill your tires for you. It probably be worth a try though.


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: Shotgun on September 28, 2005, 07:10:17 PM
We used to fill our bicycle tires with water up north. It would freeze in the winter and make for some fun ridin.


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: clancooler on September 28, 2005, 08:17:59 PM
well, the quads usually weigh around 400 pounds, and i dont know but i think you may need alot more than just tires filled with helium. i recomend nitrogen becuase it is clean and dry and absorbs moisture.


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: Shotgun on September 29, 2005, 07:26:02 PM
http://www.winktv.com/x17673.xml


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: xtremeraptor on September 29, 2005, 10:00:27 PM
AWESOME


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: Jford on October 01, 2005, 06:40:06 AM
Somebody here, either works at the factory, or has alot of stock in Nitrogen.


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: lugnuts on October 01, 2005, 11:37:30 AM
if you are in pinellas area pm me we have a nitro fill station at my work I can hook you up with some


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: Truegrit on October 02, 2005, 08:56:57 PM
You may be able to buy a air tank, One for storing compressed air. THen take it to a welding shop to fill it up.


Title: Re: Helium Filled Tires
Post by: UncleRico on October 05, 2005, 07:06:36 PM
DANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!  You all are some wicked smart people.

I wish I sat next to Chillin in chemistry class.


Peace out!