ATV Florida Forum

Are they kidding me with this, first I thought they did away with this years ago, but is it any surprise which students are being given corporal punishment more? It is getting really old to blame racial profiling on every thing these days.

I went to school, and I always preferred the paddle over a call to my parents, who used a belt!! ;)

Perhaps if the principles got to use a cane stalk we wouldn't see the same thing in incarceration statistics.

250,000 students beaten during '07 school year
By Libby Quaid
Associated Press

WASHINGTON — Paddlings, swats, licks. A quarter of a million schoolchildren got them in 2007 — and blacks, American Indians and children with disabilities got a disproportionate share, according to a study by a human rights group.


Even small children can be paddled.


Heather Porter, who lives in Crockett, Texas, was startled to hear her little boy, then 3, say he'd been spanked at school. Porter was never told, despite a policy at the public preschool that parents be notified.


”We were pretty ticked off, to say the least. The reason he got paddled was because he was untying his shoes and playing with the air conditioner thermostat,“ Porter said. ”He was being a 3-year-old.“


In its study, being released Wednesday, the group Human Rights Watch used Education Department data to show that, although paddling has been declining, racial disparity persists. Researchers also interviewed students, parents and school personnel in Texas and Mississippi, states that account for 40 percent of children paddled during the 2007 school year.


Porter could have filled out a form telling the school not to paddle her son, if only she had realized he might be paddled.


Yet many parents find that such forms are ignored, the study said.


Widespread paddling can make it unlikely that forms will be checked. Tiffany Bart-lett, a teacher interviewed by Human Rights Watch, said that in her Austin, Texas, school the policy was to lock classroom doors when the bell rang, leaving stragglers to be paddled by an administrator patrolling the hallways.


Even if schools make a mistake, they are unlikely to face lawsuits. In places where corporal punishment is allowed, teachers and principals generally have legal immunity from assault laws, the study said.


”One of the things we've seen over and over again is that parents have difficulty getting redress, if a child is paddled and severely injured, or paddled in violation of parents' wishes,“ said Alice Farmer, the study's author.


A majority of states have outlawed it, but corporal punishment remains widespread across the South. Corporal punishment is legal in Kentucky schools, but many school districts, including Fayette County's, have banned it.


African-American students are more than twice as likely to be paddled. The disparity persists even in places with large black populations, the study found. Similarly, Native Americans were more than twice as likely to be paddled, the study found.


The study also found:


■ In states where paddling is most common, black girls were paddled more than twice as often as white girls.


■ Boys are three times as likely to be paddled as girls.


■ Special education children were more likely to be paddled.


During the three years Evan Couzo taught in the Mississippi Delta, he refused to paddle children, offering detention instead. But others — teachers, parents, even children — were accustomed to paddling.


”Just about everyone at the beginning of the year said, "If he or she gives you any trouble, you can paddle them. You can send them home, and I'll paddle them. Or you can have me come out to the school, and we can both paddle them.'


”It's really just a part of the culture of the school environment there,“ Couzo said.
http://www.kentucky.com/216/story/495682.html

Beat those little basturds. :X

Good to see you back Jack.


This is an easy one for me. First some history. I went to public schools my entire education. I have been paddled an a few occasions, but my parents were called FIRST.
I honestly didn't know schools still paddled at all. I figured it was outlawed as "inhumane" since now we remove all negative consequences that might actually work and instead affix labels to excuse children from disruptive behavior instead of address it. You know, the ever popular "PC" method that does nothing except refuse to condemn inappropriate behavior to avoid offending anyone.

Black over white ? I don't think so. In today's society it's more likely that administrators, especially if they are white, would paddle a white child before a black on in fear of marches, demonstrations, jesse jackson, al sharpton, boycotts, lawsuits, etc over a white paddling a black child even if the child deserved it. So the fact that black children are paddled more is most likely due to the simple fact that they earned it more than their white peers. I know, Jackl and many others will be appalled at the thought. They would rather blame it all on racist whites instead of consider the fact that perhaps the black children actually misbehave more often. This way they can endulge in their self ridden guilt at being white and publicly show that they are willing to not only avoid being a white racist, but to cater to blacks due to thier color. But it shows you the other side of the coin. To armchair quarterback it and say it's racism is what our society will most likely do, but that doesn't make it right. The only way to actually know for sure would be to have all the facts and weigh them on a case by case basis, which just isn't possible. So we'll have to either trust those that have studied, trained, and dedicated their lives to educating our children or call the naacp and shout racism. I'm sure Jack is already on the phone.

In the information provided it also says boys are three times as likely to be paddled as girls -  does that mean that we should also assume that the entire public school system is sexist and set out to paddle boys and not girls ? maybe we should have a naami (national association for the advancement of male individuals) sue and protest our male children being singled out and paddled just because they are male ? sound pretty stupid right ? same with the race issue.

I was paddled when in grade school. In my class - I lived in Lutz and was in the gifted class - there were about 24 kids - 4 of which were black as well as a few others that were neither black nor white but other ethnicities. Of the (approx - as best as I can recall ) 24 kids - I was the only one paddled that year. as a matter of fact that year I was paddled at least 3 times that I recall (I know you're all shocked  :D ) . So does that mean that I was the victim of racism ? sexism ? or perhaps it was because of some other reason that I was singled out ?  Yep , it was I DESERVED IT !  Just like the kids that got paddled in 2007, they earned it. Regardless of color, religion, or what ever else makes them all different, they earned a paddling. If thier behavior didn't deserve punishment it wouldn't have been an issue.

In summation  we can't look back at a year of statistics and scream racism just because more black kids were paddled than whites. Or we can do what is appropriate and if there is a case of a child being paddled without cause then it should be addressed immediately. Not because the child is white or black, but because punishment without reason is wrong. And so is second guessing our public schools for administering punishment when it is needed just because you map it out on paper and realize that more black kids earned a punishment than other kids. The schools address the behaviors, not the color of the child's skin, and that's the way it should be.

Hey Jack what do you suggest ? should they only paddle as many black kids as there paddle white kids ? would it make you feel better to know that instead of avoiding the use of race as a  factor in making a decision we instead allow black kids to get away with the same behaviors that we punish white kids for even though that is indeed racism ?

I say instead of people coming up with bogus ways to scream about something that isn't really there, they spend that time addressing proper behaviors for these kids so none of them will be paddled in the future.

i was a relatively good student getting paddled only once. i understand that some kids deserve being paddled. however being a parent, no adult is gonna lay their hands on my kids. if my kids misbehave the wrath of god will come from me.

I personally agree that corporal punishment should not be doled out by the school. but if it is it must be uniform based on the behavior, not the child. That also means NOT letting a kid get away with it because he/she is black and you're afraid of jesse jackson, al sharpton, and Jackl crying about it.

Lord help you if you are a black special education boy... your screwed LOL

I think most of the parents need the paddlings, I can't believe the $hit parents let there kids get away with. I think stun guns will work more properly. ;)

OMG I agree on something with TRX  :o     It is due to the parents NOT teaching their kids how to behave, or disciplining them that makes it necessary for the schools to step in and do something. Unfortunately, many parents do let their kids get away with everything, so when they come to school they don't know how to act. And instead of the parents addressing the kids' behavior problems they blame the school eg Jack (even though he's not a parent) blaming the schools for paddling kids. If the parents were doing their jobs, the schools wouldn't have to. And they would be able to focus on educating our kids, instead of teaching them how to behave.

um just an fyi.  jack is a parent and has been up in GA helping his daughter as well as her mother which is why he hasn't been online. 

and i gotta agree w/ trx which is why i can't stand having most children around me.  and i always compliment those who do have good kids and want them around when we're out.

Um OK didn't know.   In that case........ Hey Jack how would you feel if your child and a black child in the same class (assuming your child is not black) did the same thing, but your child was paddled and the black child was not - gotta make sure they don't paddle more black than white.

QT I get the feeling you don't like kids. You can't expect kids to act like small adults. But we've been through this before. You'll just have to excuse us, as you've said before, "breeders"  :o  :D

This could be a hoax. ;)

I figured as much. I knew something was wrong when you started making sense  :D :D :D

Our school allows paddlings if the parents oks it. The thing is that the pricipals have their rules and they go by them in all circumstances.

One incident was that my son was throwing acorns during PE with many other students. The teacher who caught him had some options, 1= warn them not to do it again or be sent to the office or 2= send them to the office. She chose number two. Well the principal has his own guidelines that he goes by if a child is sent to the office and it is to A= send him to ISS for 3 days or B= the student gets a paddling. I called the office and was explained this and told the principal that I did not agree with this but go ahead and paddle my child, that he was not doing ISS for something the teacher should have warned him about. Then when he came home, I told my son to pad up his clothes because he would be getting a paddling the next day. I normally would not let him pad up but this time I thought he really didn't deserve the paddling.

Second incident, he had this one kid that always picked on him and he would tell me about it, I told him to knock the crap out of the kid and he would leave him alone. Well it happened, then he was sent to the office. I called the principal this time and told him that my son has had a problem with this child for a long time and that I told him the next time the kid picked on him to knock the crap out of him and he would leave him alone. Then I told the principal to give my child the ISS because he was not getting a paddling for something I told him to do.

By the way, he does not have any more problems with this kid.

And no one can fault you for what you did Yunt. I would have done the same in both situations. Just shows you are a concerned, involved parent that wants the best for his kid. You didn't make excuses for him, or get him out of it even when the punishment was too much for his behavior. I'm sure your son didn't enjoy it, but the way you're handling things will instill a sense of responsibility, understanding of consequences, and character in him. If all parents were like you we wouldn't have many of the problems we now have in our schools, and society in general.
 I applaud you sir :Clap.gif

Most of the time, it's the parents that need their azzes beat.

Thank you sir. By the way, my son thanked me for it when he got home from school. He told me that now its over and he didn't have to worry about it anymore.

I think the entire premise of the article is BS. Black kids are disciplined more because of their behavior, not racism. You seem to think I am a bleeding heart liberal or something, but you couldn't be further from the truth.

I am not complaining in the least, I think corporal punishment is just fine, as long as it is dished out fairly end evenly, which I have no doubt is being done now.

This is the same sort of logic the PC crowd uses to justify 13% of the population committing 70% of the crime. It is crap, and everyone who went to public school knows it.

Very true.

I think most of the parents need the paddlings, I can't believe the $hit parents let there kids get away with.
[/quote]

Amen

A spanking never hurt any kid. A beating, thats different, but kids are not created equal and what works for one does not always work for the others.
Parents are really soft in America anymore and the kids are the ones who end up suffering for their parents lack of discipline.
My parents told the principle to spank if needed. It was needed only once.  :'(

When I was growing up, I wasn't afraid of the cops, teacher or principal. I was afraid of what my Dad was going to do when I got home. Beating my butt kept me out of trouble when I was younger. Back in the day some of my friends didn't have fathers and they were as afraid of my Dad as I was, because he wouldn't hesitate to smack the crap out of them also.

Another story about paddling.

When one of my friends moved here from NY his Dad never heard of paddling at school. One day he got in trouble, we were 8 or 9 years old. The principal told him he was going to be paddled the next day. Before this took place one night at dinner my friend told his father about paddling at school. His Dad said "if any touches my kids with that thing I will stick it up their azz sideways." When the principal told my buddy he was going to be paddled, he said to the principal "you do that and me Dad is going to stick that thing up you azz sideways." The next day my friend, his Dad and the principal had a conference. The principal told my friends Dad he was going to paddle my friend. My friends dad said "you touch my kid with that and I will stick it up you azz sideways." My friend said to the principal "I told you so."

True story!

Another Amen  ;)   Absolutely correct Mudnuri - can you imagine what earlier generations of Americans would think upon hearing much of the junk going on in today's society ? If America was as soft by 1900 as we are now, we'd be speaking German. yes I know that transcends issues, but it's applicable. Our kids need to know they answer for, or are rewarded for, what they do. Our society takes liberty and privileges for granted because it was those before us that had to fight and struggle to establish them. Our lackadaisical posture / everything is ok PC nonsense is an indulgence afforded to us now, but promises to destroy what our founders built.


Jackl - relax, if I can't mess with ya what's the point of you being back ? ;D

So, you simply don't have the skills, patience, intelligence or resources necessary to deal with unruly kids. Why stop with paddling kids, why not get your same jollies by paddling rude or inconsiderate adults, traffic offenders, law-breakers, cheating spouses, tax-cheaters, athletes who commit sporting infractions, etc.? Hell, why stop there, impose Taliban law!

I disagree. If my Dad didn't raise me with azz whoopins, I would probably be in jail. Everyone isn't the same.

Thats when if I was the principal that I would have told that dad "that your son is on a 5 day out of school suspension, don't expect me to babysit your unruly kids then."

I got paddled almost daily at school............but then again I enjoyed it, quite immensely actually >:D

So, the child who chooses corporal punishment gets to stay in school while the one who chooses administrative/envrionment control misses out on his education? Our brilliant public education system can't think of anything more-effective? Because they don't have the money or don't want to spend money on kids with special needs, we just pummel kids into submission or ban them? Sounds just like what they're doing to ATVers in South Florida!   

Some kids need an azz whippin, that is just how it is.


You have to admit, if we brought back public executions, televised cainings and perhaps an 'over 21 sex offender castration show' we would see a rapid drop in these sorts of crimes.

The PPV revenue from Old Sparky alone could solve our budget crisis.

I'm for all of the above. No more therapy for people that can't be helped. Get rid of them before they irreparably harm or kill another innocent person.

As for corporal punishment in schools...... It's not the most effective method from a behavior modification stance, but under the constraints and in the interest of the kids there to get their education it's better than letting a few bad apples spoil the bunch. It gives them a chance to understand the consequences of their actions and make a decision to change or reap the benefits of what they decide to do.
I agree that it wouldn't be so much of an issue if parents would discipline their kids and make sure they know how to behave. With proper parenting we wouldn't have more than a few instances of paddling in schools. Face it, kids will be kids and part of growing up is making mistakes and learning from them. 

Let's paddle anyone how diagrees with us, too!

Its not that there is a choice, I asure you the child would choose anything but a paddling, but there are consequences to your actions just like there are fines and punishment when you grow up and become an adult. Its called discipline. You violate a law and then you are fined accordingly. Should we not teach our children at an early age. You teach them that they can do as they want as a child, they think its ok to violate the laws when they are older. Thats why there is so much crime in this world. People not paying for their actions. Most of the problems start at home with parents letting their kids do as they please and protecting them when they do wrong. I will protect my child as long as I live (rather they are right or wrong), but they know if they do something wrong then there will be consequences to their actions.

Does paddling make us more or less civilized?

More. Paddling as behavior modification is crude at best, but the fact that we are willing to engage in what ever is needed to address the problem behaviors in pursuit of a more productive, more functional society shows it's just the implementation of a necessary tool to obtain that civilization.

I know there are more effective methods of modifying behaviors than presenting a positive punishment in the form of paddling, but to implement it would mean depriving the students with appropriate behaviors of much needed resources, attention, and leave them in a less stable environment that would further impare their education. We do what we must in such situations. If the parents would take part and make sure their kids are well behaved, held responsible for their actions and respect authority we could keep out teachers teaching instead of trying to dole out punishments to make sure the on task children can focus on their education.

In short paddling is a necessary evil.

If paddling is so effective(vs. other methods), why aren't we imposing it upon adults? When adults violate society's rules, we've managed to find ways to impose consequences other than paddling, right? If an adult fails to appropriately respond to the consequences, those consequences escalate to incarceration. Why is it any different for children? For example, there's currently a teenager(15 y.o.) awaiting trial as an adult because he murdered his girlfriend. Was he paddled? Who knows and who cares!

there are way to many parents that little johnny is a perfect angel when in fact little johnny is a littla a**hole thats always been spared the rod so to speak.paddling should be aloud in school.if the parents would do it at home then it most likely wouldn't have to be done in school.time out or detention does not work.believe me I had my share of whippins at home and was taught right from wrong by my parents.

A spanking never hurt any kid. A beating, thats different, but kids are not created equal and what works for one does not always work for the others.
Parents are really soft in America anymore and the kids are the ones who end up suffering for their parents lack of discipline.
My parents told the principle to spank if needed. It was needed only once.  :'(
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lol my dad wasnt soft. i got beat when i did somethin wrong.
im 16 but i agree, some kids need a good paddlin. then maybe by the time the git to highschool then the real world, they wont be F ups

Go Daddy, go!

Someone paddles my son or daughter and I will rip off their legs and beat them with one of them and shove the other one up their a s s!
Straight up no kidding, for real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me know whats going on and I will take care of it myself.
Its not that I dont think that it should necessarily be that way, its just that I definately dont trust someone else to do it. You never know what the hell is running through these peoples minds when they do it, or even if they know how to do it without hurting the child. I dont want someone that I dont know, trust, or have even given permission to spank my child.

I will wear their a s s out though!  :o
Me. Nobody else.

How about this one though. Lets say they call you to the school and give you the low down on the completely retarded thing that your child has done. (Lord knows they do the dumbest things!)
So, you ask the principle to please leave the office while I talk to my Son or Daughter. While he is out of the office, You completely wear their butt out and give them one for the ages. I BET THEY CALL CHILD SERVICES ON YOU!
Or your child gets a spanking from you at home and comes back and tells the principle that "my daddy beat the crap out of me".  I BET THEY CALL CHILD SERVICES ON YOU!

Hippocritical, dont you think?

I would have rather got the paddling myself, but my mom wouldnt allow it. She got the phone call every time. Which sucked HUGE!
I remember one time when I was "naughty". I was in the 9th grade and my mom came to school and sat with me every class for 2 days. Most embarrasing thing ever. Still going through therapy on that one. :D
I wish I would have just got a spanking or paddling!
jt

That is the problem, not enough parents do this.

There are consequences other then paddling for adults because its kind of hard to paddle an adult, don't you think. The consequenses are incarceration. Maybe you would like your child to be incarcerated when he does something wrong and not be at school getting an education but for me, I had rather mine be getting an education. Thats why I said for the parent who wouldn't let his child take a paddling may need to be at home with his unruly parents for several days and see if that works.

If you don't trust them to paddle your child then you best not trust them to teach your child and need to homeschool them. Evidently you don't listen to the news because teachers are having sex with kids all the time from school. There are plenty of perverted and violant kids in school because parents teach it to them at HOME. Now, should I go on and mention the drugs and shootings? And now the schools have to have police officers at school during school hours and there was never an officer at school when I went to school. Now how is that for trust.   

all i know is most parents now days are a joke. can you imagine telling your parents NO to their face when we were kids.i have a lot of teenagers who live on my street and i never even seen one mow their yard.their single moms are mowing it after they get home from work while their fat lazy kids aint doing chet! sure i partied  hard when i was a teenager but not until all the chores were done.shoot now that i think about it i cant remember the last time i saw a kid doing a chore around their parents house.....keep being your kids "best friend" but have the bail money ready.its really just so pathetic.......i can see where QT is coming from.my parents were more strict on me than any of my friends parents and i was the only one of my friends that never got arrested or ended up in rehab,knock on wood ::),you do the math.

Flipping through the channels last night, I came upon "Super Nanny." OMG did those kids need a beating. Not a spanking or a paddling. No. A beating several times a day!! I thought the nanny lady was going to do it! These boys cussed, kicked, punched, spat,  threw things, and bit...their father! He was such a wussy and the kids were a direct result of poor parenting. They love their kids, but that is different from being a good parent.
Let the beatings begin!!
Seriously, my parents did not spare the rod nor the staff. My dad added the boot. I still wound up in trouble, so I don't know if it works or not?

I'm still waiting for a kid section in restaurants, if not a paddling section were I can beat the parents ass and then paddle there devil child's ass too. 8)

A paddle is ineffective on adults, that is why I suggested a caining or bull whipping for those guys, preferably televised. Prison has become a vacation for criminals and is no deterrent what so ever.

:Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif

 you sound like QT  :D

Trusting someone to teach my child and trusting someone to swing hickory at them are two different things.
As far as trust in people in "GENERAL", I give them trust with limitations and bounderies.
Teachers having sex with students is obviously a very bad thing, but does not fall into the general trust guidelines as it pertains to the education of my children.
HELL NO, i dont trust them beyond that. Of course, that is why I am constantly communciating with my children on matters of that subject. But you are definitely right about one thing- These children are usually results of bad parenting. OR, a result of a good parent not knowing how to properly prepare their children for these things.

Either way, Nobody is paddling my child. I just cant see someone taking that into their own hands.

Put them on a "chain gang" at school where they have to do hard physical and degrading work while wearing bright orange jumpsuits in front on the rest of the school. That would do it for me.

I think were on the same page. :D

Now, that would be just inhumane. I like it, but the liberals just would not allow that. We can't embarrass children by no means, that would effect them their whole entire life. So paddling is what needs to be done. Its over quick and has a memorable effect. Trust me, I can tell you every paddling I got in school. And theres a difference between a paddling and a beating, I don't believe in beatings and parents smacking their kids around. If you can't smack them on their behind, then don't smack them at all.

I agree somewhat about the inhumane part. I dont like to, but I do.
NO beating them, but I do like to grab them by the nape of their neck sometimes.
Lead them around like little lambs, while they stand on their tippy toes.
My grandmother used to walk me around by the hair on the back of my neck.
Didnt do any damage, just hurt like freakin' crazy!!  ;D

i think it would be best to give kids or parents the choice, i bet most would take the paddling. i would, get it out of the way and don't miss a ton of class time in detention. but then you can still call it humane because they had the choice.

The thing about choice is there are no choices when you grow up, there are consequences. You break the law, you pay the price. You have some kids that get into trouble just to go to ISS and not have to do any schoolwork. They are waiting for the day that they turn 16 just so they can get out of school. Another thing with ISS is that now you have to have a teacher in there watching there sorry azz. Give them that paddling or make them write an essay and get it over with. Why should one student who causes a disturbance in class effect the students who are there to get an education. If they know that they will get paddled or have to do more school work then they would behave.

I went to Christian schools most of my life and up until high school they paddled the students for certain things. I got my butt beat almost daily too then Mom would find out what I did at the end of the day and round 2 came from her. I have to say this though. At the school that I went to, it was never abuse but nothing more than a few swats on the butt. The principal always talked to you before you were swatted and let you know what you were being swatted for (as if you didn't know already) and then once he got done swatting you he would talk to you some more and maybe try and give you advice on what to do differently the next time so you would not have to go to the office.

For you parents though just remember this.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/JRalston/beatkid.jpg)

(Only kidding folks)

If your independent or liberal thinker doesn't look like that either, you've failed in your job as a conservative! :) BTW, what's your child doing home alone? You at the bar or what?

There should be some constructive good from being punished. Writing an essay, it keeps their mind busy as well as possibly teaching them lesson...mentally. Give them a topic to write about that is educational. 

Good old Dean Jones at my high school (Northeast, for the Broward locals) had a very long paddle with holes drilled in it, and he was a very big brother. I always preferred that to my fathers belt, even the time he accidentally caught the back of my legs. Paddle or phone call, ha, ha, ha, ha! I knew what I was picking. My parents probably never even knew I was ever paddled once.


This is an excellent idea! ISS is a total joke, this would work well I believe.

Forget paddling ! I saw we beat them with 5 - 18 inch long strands of barbed wire affixed to a handle  >:(     :D

Thats what some adults need.

Wow, I can hardly bear to read all this.  No one lays a hand on my child (FYI our schools do not paddle), and those who have met our children can attest to their behavior.  You do not have to spank a child to get them to behave.

no,just spoil or bribe them huh ::)

Not at all, instill an environment that you would have enjoyed when you were a child. When the child says or asks a question, take the time to see what the child has on his mind not reply I don't have time right now. I am a firm believer that if you learn anything the correct way first you always revert back to that, and that goes for anything. I'm not saying that my child is an angel by any means, but he damn well knows respect, common courtesy and how to act.

If that is the only way YOU know how.  My children have been and continue to be raised on respect.  Consistency is the key, like greengriz said, take the time to be a parent.  I see so many kids pushed off to the side (or drug around) it is unreal.  We do not spoil and bribe our children.  We lay it out...here is what is expected....these are the consequences....and we are consistent about it. We also teach by example in our home, by being the type of people that we want our children to be.  How you can you expect a child to demonstrate respect and good judgement if you do not do so yourself? My children at the ages of 6 and 9 also volunteer their time one afternoon a week so they can see how fortunate they are.  We are not wealthy in dollars, but I feel that true wealth is in a family and if you invest in it, you will recieve the best return.

That tired old spoil and bribe them line comes only from those who lack effective parenting skills or are too lazy to use them! What's your incentive to work?

I have never once had to even consider spanking my child, even after all the times my parents wished an evil offspring on me while I was growing up. ;)

Unfortunately you fail to see the big picture here, which is not everyone is fit to be a parent in the first place, and the public schools are ill equipped to even educate some of these children, let alone instill any sort values in them. The end result is a dilution of education and a vicious circle which is tightening.

What this country really needs is to quadruple the amount of money we spend on education.

This I agree with.

And I see enough bad parents out there, but there are also some really good ones.

I truly believe if the money is spent on education today, it would not be needed for jails tommorrow.

And I can see the lawsuit coming on if they did the chain gang embarassment situation.  Here in St Lucie Co there is an issue going on about a teacher who let the other children in a kindergarden class "vote out" another student who was very disruptive.  The mother took the child for testing and he is borderline autistic.  Now the school board is being sued for traumatizing the child.

Ban idiot teachers. Or, paddle them. Next question, please!